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GMPenguin's Automotive and Etc. Homepage -> GMPenguin's Automotive and Etc. Forums -> The Luxury Cars Forum -> VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edmunds)
Post Info TOPIC: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edmunds)
ifcar


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quote:
Originally posted by: MX793
"

Yes, but people are more apt to accept a sports car at a high price from an otherwise mainstream carmaker than they are to buy a luxury car. Case in point, the Ford GT or the old Toyota Supra. Part of luxury cars is how much status the badge has. Badge status is important for sports cars too, but not as much as it is for luxury cars. Nobody's going to pay top dollar for a luxury car with a "Chevy" badge on it. They don't want their luxury car to come from the same company that also makes cheap economy cars and family cars. They want exclusivity associated with the brand. This is, in part, why a car like the Phaeton doesn't do well."


Sports cars are also bought by status seekers. The Corvette is typically bought by midlife-crisis males, and the Ford GT is lower-volume than the Phaeton.

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thewizard16


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Originally posted by: ifcar
"

Sports cars are also bought by status seekers. The Corvette is typically bought by midlife-crisis males, and the Ford GT is lower-volume than the Phaeton."

I don't think that's quite it. The Corvette also has a long history and reputation as being "the" American sports car, which is an asset when it comes to marketing. The GT is more expensive, and is part of the "ultimate" sports car category which, true, is dominated by high-end brand names, but is an entirely different field. It's unfair to compare GT sales to Phaeton sales, the GT is considerably more expensive, and competes in an entirely different category. Comparing GT sales to Ferrari 360 sales would be more fair. Same price range, both V8 powered "supercars".

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ifcar


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Originally posted by: thewizard16
"
I don't think that's quite it. The Corvette also has a long history and reputation as being "the" American sports car, which is an asset when it comes to marketing. The GT is more expensive, and is part of the "ultimate" sports car category which, true, is dominated by high-end brand names, but is an entirely different field. It's unfair to compare GT sales to Phaeton sales, the GT is considerably more expensive, and competes in an entirely different category. Comparing GT sales to Ferrari 360 sales would be more fair. Same price range, both V8 powered "supercars"."


Considering how few high-end cars exist with mainstream nameplates, you can't really be that picky with the few examples that we have.

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Kevin


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Originally posted by: ifcar
" typically bought by midlife-crisis males"

Actually the most people I've seen with Vettes or Mustangs are 80 year old men and women (respectively) that can barely walk.  I get you're point I just thought I'd throw that in there.


And iffy I see there is no way I can get through your head the big difference between a $50k sports car and a $50k luxury sedan, so I give up before I start.



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ifcar


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Originally posted by: Kevin
"
And iffy I see there is no way I can get through your head the big difference between a $50k sports car and a $50k luxury sedan, so I give up before I start."


The Phaeton doesn't cost $50k, if it did it would probably be selling.

And of course there is a difference, but it isn't a huge enough one to take out my point.

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thewizard16


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Originally posted by: ifcar
"

Considering how few high-end cars exist with mainstream nameplates, you can't really be that picky with the few examples that we have. "

My point wasn't necessarily just because they were different types of vehicles, that was part of it, but more that the GT is $73,000 more than a base Phaeton. You could buy two Phaetons for the price of a GT. For that reason, saying that the GT was lower volume than a Phaeton was kindof a no-brainer. Trying to compare two vehicles that entirely different that are priced that entirely different just doesn't work, no matter how limited your selections are.


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ifcar


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Originally posted by: thewizard16
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My point wasn't necessarily just because they were different types of vehicles, that was part of it, but more that the GT is $73,000 more than a base Phaeton. You could buy two Phaetons for the price of a GT. For that reason, saying that the GT was lower volume than a Phaeton was kindof a no-brainer. Trying to compare two vehicles that entirely different that are priced that entirely different just doesn't work, no matter how limited your selections are.
"


And of the other example?

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thewizard16


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Originally posted by: ifcar
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And of the other example?"

The Corvette?

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ifcar


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Originally posted by: thewizard16
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The Corvette?"


Good rebuttal.

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thewizard16


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I wasn't trying to compare the Corvette to the GT.

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ifcar


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Originally posted by: thewizard16
"I wasn't trying to compare the Corvette to the GT. "


Neither was I.

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thewizard16


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Originally posted by: ifcar
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Neither was I. "

Then what were you talking about?

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ifcar


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Originally posted by: thewizard16
"
Then what were you talking about?"


I believe (it's been awhile) I used the Corvette as an example of a popular high-end car from a mainstream brand that doesn't have the best reputation.

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thewizard16


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quote:
Originally posted by: ifcar
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I believe (it's been awhile) I used the Corvette as an example of a popular high-end car from a mainstream brand that doesn't have the best reputation."

Ah, I see.

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Kevin


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quote:
Originally posted by: ifcar
" I believe (it's been awhile) I used the Corvette as an example of a popular high-end car from a mainstream brand that doesn't have the best reputation."
No I believe you were trying to pass it off as a luxury car.

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thewizard16


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quote:
Originally posted by: Kevin
"No I believe you were trying to pass it off as a luxury car."

We already established that it's certainly not that, though the C6 is much closer than the C5 was.

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ifcar


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quote:
Originally posted by: Kevin
"No I believe you were trying to pass it off as a luxury car."


Shows what you know.

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Kevin


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quote:
Originally posted by: ifcar
" Shows what you know. "
Yes it does, considering that is what you were talking about, and not using it as "an example of a popular high-end car from a mainstream brand that doesn't have the best reputation."

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ifcar


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quote:
Originally posted by: Kevin
"Yes it does, considering that is what you were talking about, and not using it as "an example of a popular high-end car from a mainstream brand that doesn't have the best reputation.""


That is exactly what I was using it as. Both the Phaeton and the Corvette are examples of high-end cars from low-reputation mainstream brands. One is popular, one isn't. I used the Corvette to show that such a car can be popular, that the Phaeton wasn't automatically destined to fail as soon as the VW badge was applied.

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Kevin


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quote:
Originally posted by: ifcar
" That is exactly what I was using it as. Both the Phaeton and the Corvette are examples of high-end cars from low-reputation mainstream brands. One is popular, one isn't. I used the Corvette to show that such a car can be popular, that the Phaeton wasn't automatically destined to fail as soon as the VW badge was applied."
But that's like comparing a potatoe to a banana, one's a $50k American Sports Car.  The other is a $70k German Luxury Sedan.

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