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Post Info TOPIC: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edmunds)


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VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edmunds)


Easily the Greatest Car Nobody Wants


Some say it looks like a big Passat, like that's a negative. We like the Phaeton's simple lines.


From those two big exhaust pipes comes a sweet V8 rumble.


Everyone who drove the car felt the steering was too light, but we all loved the interior, which is as luxurious as any car for the price.


History will judge the failure of the Volkswagen Phaeton as a stain on our automotive times, just as it will the death of Oldsmobile and the profile of the BMW 6 Series. The car is that good, and its sales are that bad.

The Volkswagen Phaeton is a flop of Edsel proportions. In the 18 months since VW launched the Phaeton in September 2003, it has sold just 2,506 examples of the ultra-luxury sedan. That's an average of only 140 cars per month. During the same time period, Mercedes-Benz sold 31,536 examples of its S-Class.

Is the S-Class that much better than the VW or are America's well-to-do car consumers simply refusing to spend $67,000-plus on a Volkswagen? After a week behind the wheel of this silver 2005 VW Phaeton V8, we figure America's well-to-do must be as label-conscious as the Gastineau Girls.

The V8 Model
A year ago, we tested a 2004 Volkswagen Phaeton W12 and thought it had the stuff to take on the BMW 7 Series, Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Lexus LS 430.

This Phaeton V8 model, however, is actually the better buy. Although it's packing 85 less horsepower than its 12-cylinder sibling, the V8 is a genuine bargain at its $66,950 base price.

For that price you get the same strong 335-hp, 4.2-liter V8 and Tiptronic six-speed automatic transmission used in the smaller Audi A6. You also get 4Motion all-wheel drive, an auto-leveling air suspension with electronic damping control, electronic stability control, 18-inch wheels and tires, such gratuitous engineering as heated windshield-washer nozzles and enough rear-seat room to park three steroid-abusing baseball players, if you run in those circles.

Changes for the 2005 Phaetons are limited to a restyled grille, restyled wheels and V8 models now come standard with a "soft close" feature that automatically pulls shut any passenger door not completely closed.

Our test car wore two option packages: The Comfort and Cold Weather Package ($4,800), which includes a heated steering wheel, and the Technology Package ($1,150), which adds electronic parking assist and a power-opening and -closing trunk.

Both are worth the cash. All told our Phaeton V8 added up to $76,355, which is about the going rate for cars in this class.

Not a Sport Sedan
If you're looking for a sport sedan, look elsewhere. The same $75 thou will buy you a Mercedes-Benz CLS500, which is far more fun.

No, the Phaeton is unique in today's market because it's a traditional luxury car, like Cadillacs were in the '50s and '60s. It's powerful and surprisingly athletic, but it isn't a car you spend a day throwing around mountain roads. Instead, you point a Phaeton toward Vegas at 100 mph. You'll arrive at the craps table feeling lucky.

The "basic" setting on the adjustable suspension is the closest to a perfect setup we've ever felt. Every rough, jagged or rippled piece of pavement is translated through the seats and steering wheel, but it's so ideally damped you're never bothered by any of it. And from a handling point of view, it's just not possible to upset this car. It isn't razor-sharp, but it's unflappable.

At the Track
At the test track, we recorded a 0-60-mph time of 7.6 seconds and a quarter-mile run of 15.7 seconds at 92.5 mph. Quick enough to feel fast, but much slower than the W12 model and the last BMW 745i we tested.

On the road and in the slalom, the Phaeton's big tires, all-wheel drive and hefty 5,000-pound curb weight give it awesome stability. But the gearing in the six-speed was all wrong for the slalom test (too fast for second gear, too slow for third), which limited its speed to just 59.5 mph. That's significantly slower than the 7 Series.

Brakes are also good, but not great. They do resist overheating, which is important and impressive considering the Phaeton's heft, but its best 60-0-mph stopping distance was a lackluster 130 feet.

Classic Elegance
Inside and out, the Phaeton's design is warm and timeless, but modern. It isn't understated to the point of plain like Lexus cars have a tendency to be, and it has no interest in taking automotive design in a whole new direction like BMW seems hell-bent on.

The Phaeton looks good and always will. Its design is about style not fashion. Nobody has to get used to it, which some feel is the mark of good design these days. Instead, it's simply long, low and wide like cars should be, and wears just enough brightwork to look special.

That classic elegance is carried inside, where you'll find a beautiful set of instruments, a steering wheel covered in leather so soft it's almost suede, and enough wood to build a tree house.

Volkswagen has also added small artful details other automakers like BMW and Mercedes just don't anymore. Things like a small square chrome V8 badge on the shifter, and chrome rings that surround everything, even the turn signal indicators.

We especially like the wood doors that silently retract every time you start the car to reveal the dashboard's air conditioning vents. They're like something right out of Q's workshop…as are the Phaeton's rocket launchers and its ability to transform into a submarine.

Volkswagen also allows just enough V8 growl into the car's cabin to keep things interesting, but the Phaeton's interior is whisper-quiet at any speed.

Not Perfect, but Close
The Phaeton isn't perfect. In fact, it has five small problems: 1) Its steering, while full of feedback, is too light; 2) Shaquille O'Neal would think the window switches are too far from the driver; 3) the CD-based navigation system thinks too slowly; 4) its adjustable suspension annoyingly resets itself to the "basic" setting after every key cycle; and 5) its cupholders are too shallow.

Get Over It
If you're shopping for a high-end luxury sedan and haven't considered the Phaeton because of its VW badge, get over it, you're missing out on one of the world's great cars. The Phaeton is a glorious creation of power, grace, style and sophistication.

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V-12

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RE: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edmunds


I rather like the Phaeton, but it didn't surprise me that no one wanted to shell out that much money for a Volkswagen. It's not that it's too high of a price for the car, it's just that some people won't pay that much money for a car from a certain brand. That'd be like if Toyota suddenly tried to sell a $60,000 car. They can get away with it on the Land Cruiser, because of it's reputation and history, but for a company that doesn't have a car that breaks the $40,000 line and already has a luxury brand, it's just not a good idea.

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RE: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edmunds)


Some kid in my school has a dad who has a black Phaeton. :drool:

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Great article.  I agree with wizard, but I don't think a $60,000 Toyota would be that bad.  Still the buying based on name is just stupid.  Does anyone know sales figures for the Audi A6 (that's the Audi sibling right?).

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RE: RE: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edm


quote:
Originally posted by: Kevin

"Great article.  I agree with wizard, but I don't think a $60,000 Toyota would be that bad.  Still the buying based on name is just stupid.  Does anyone know sales figures for the Audi A6 (that's the Audi sibling right?)."


The A8 is the Phaeton relative, not the A6. And while it's no smash hit, it's easily selling five times the Phaeton's volume, or similar.

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V-12

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quote:
Originally posted by: Kevin

"Great article.  I agree with wizard, but I don't think a $60,000 Toyota would be that bad.  Still the buying based on name is just stupid.  Does anyone know sales figures for the Audi A6 (that's the Audi sibling right?)."

Buying on name is stupid, but when people can get a luxury name plate sibling of a Volkswagen for similar money, it tends to enter the mind. The reason I used Toyota as an example is because they have a similar structure to VW (now) in the manner of brand relationship closer than any other I could think of. I don't think a $60,000 Toyota luxury car would sell well at all, because people would be thinking "I could get a Lexus for that money". That's all I was trying to say.

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quote:

Originally posted by: thewizard16

" Buying on name is stupid, but when people can get a luxury name plate sibling of a Volkswagen for similar money, it tends to enter the mind. The reason I used Toyota as an example is because they have a similar structure to VW (now) in the manner of brand relationship closer than any other I could think of. I don't think a $60,000 Toyota luxury car would sell well at all, because people would be thinking "I could get a Lexus for that money". That's all I was trying to say."

It's probably just me (I'm sure it's just me) but I don't see as much of a difference in a Toyota and Lexus, as I do in VW and Audi, maybe it's because Toyota actually created Lexus as their luxury clone company.  But I would also buy a Lexus over the Toyota unless it was downright ugly compared to the Toyota.  I know you're talking luxury cars, but the Supra was $50k (no relevance, it just came to mind).

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RE: RE: RE: RE: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wa


quote:
Originally posted by: Kevin

"It's probably just me (I'm sure it's just me) but I don't see as much of a difference in a Toyota and Lexus, as I do in VW and Audi, maybe it's because Toyota actually created Lexus as their luxury clone company.  But I would also buy a Lexus over the Toyota unless it was downright ugly compared to the Toyota.  I know you're talking luxury cars, but the Supra was $50k (no relevance, it just came to mind)."

They're becoming more different that they originally were, but there's still a big prestige difference. Yes, the Supra was expensive, but it was niche vehicle, and any company can sell one of those if they do it right. The Land Cruiser is more than 50K, and Lexus has cheaper SUVs than that, but it sells on it's history. If it weren't as old of a name with the image that "Land Cruiser" evokes in people's minds, it probably wouldn't sell at that much money.

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quote:

Originally posted by: thewizard16

" They're becoming more different that they originally were, but there's still a big prestige difference. Yes, the Supra was expensive, but it was niche vehicle, and any company can sell one of those if they do it right. The Land Cruiser is more than 50K, and Lexus has cheaper SUVs than that, but it sells on it's history. If it weren't as old of a name with the image that "Land Cruiser" evokes in people's minds, it probably wouldn't sell at that much money."

Well, the Land Cruiser is an SUV so it's not necessarily the same.  Because a $50k Suburban isn't odd, but think of a $50k luxury car from Chevy.

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: VW Phaeton: The best car n


quote:
Originally posted by: Kevin

"Well, the Land Cruiser is an SUV so it's not necessarily the same.  Because a $50k Suburban isn't odd, but think of a $50k luxury car from Chevy."

The Suburban is a lot larger than a Land Cruiser, and aims at a different crowd. All monster SUVs are expensive, that's an accepted fact, but you can get vehicles the size of a Land Cruiser for considerably less. It's off-road, go-anywhere reputation, along with a definite aim at luxury are what allows them to sell it for that price. Heck, the Sequoia is bigger and has just about every lux feature the Land Cruiser has, and it's cheaper.

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RE: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edmunds


VW should leave the upmarket stuff to Audi and stick to more mainstream vehicles.

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RE: RE: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edm


quote:
Originally posted by: MX793

"VW should leave the upmarket stuff to Audi and stick to more mainstream vehicles."

That's it in a nutshell.

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quote:
Originally posted by: Kevin

"Well, the Land Cruiser is an SUV so it's not necessarily the same.  Because a $50k Suburban isn't odd, but think of a $50k luxury car from Chevy."


Corvette.

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RE: RE: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants (Edm


quote:
Originally posted by: MX793

"VW should leave the upmarket stuff to Audi and stick to more mainstream vehicles."


Or, bring is Seat or Skoda to be mainstream vehicles, and position VW between that and Audi.

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RE: RE: RE: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wants


quote:
Originally posted by: ifcar

"

Or, bring is Seat or Skoda to be mainstream vehicles, and position VW between that and Audi.
"


I always thought Skoda was a tad upmarket compared to VW. The ones I've seen in pictures all looked a bit classier than their equivalent VWs. Seat could work, though. Some of those are rather sharp looking.

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RE: RE: RE: RE: VW Phaeton: The best car no one wa


quote:
Originally posted by: MX793

"

I always thought Skoda was a tad upmarket compared to VW. The ones I've seen in pictures all looked a bit classier than their equivalent VWs. Seat could work, though. Some of those are rather sharp looking.
"


I'm pretty sure that both Seat and Skoda are lower-market than VW in Europe.

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: VW Phaeton: The best c


quote:
Originally posted by: ifcar

"

Corvette.
"

He said luxury.

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GMPenguin

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quote:

Originally posted by: thewizard16

" He said luxury. "

Exactly, Corvette is a sports coupe, not a luxury sedan.

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quote:
Originally posted by: Kevin

"Exactly, Corvette is a sports coupe, not a luxury sedan."


A high-end car is a high-end car. How specific does another example have to be?

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V-6

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: VW Phaeton


quote:
Originally posted by: ifcar

"

A high-end car is a high-end car. How specific does another example have to be?
"


Yes, but people are more apt to accept a sports car at a high price from an otherwise mainstream carmaker than they are to buy a luxury car. Case in point, the Ford GT or the old Toyota Supra. Part of luxury cars is how much status the badge has. Badge status is important for sports cars too, but not as much as it is for luxury cars. Nobody's going to pay top dollar for a luxury car with a "Chevy" badge on it. They don't want their luxury car to come from the same company that also makes cheap economy cars and family cars. They want exclusivity associated with the brand. This is, in part, why a car like the Phaeton doesn't do well.

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